The Secret to Calm, Connected Parenting — with Todd Sarner

In this heartfelt and eye-opening conversation, Darlene and Monica sit down with Todd Sarner, Licensed Marriage & Family Therapist and founder of Transformative Parenting, to explore what it really means to raise emotionally healthy kids. Todd shares powerful insights about why parenting starts with the parents, how to stay connected with your children even on tough days, and what to do when you and your partner have totally different parenting styles.

From “attachment-first” parenting to managing stress, marriage dynamics, and the impact of screens on kids, this episode is filled with practical advice, laughter, and real-life stories every parent can relate to.

Tune in to learn how to lead your family with love, calm, and connection.

🎧 Guest: Todd Sarner

📘 His upcoming book: The Calm and Connected Parent (Coming November 2025)

www.transformativeparenting.com

Transcript

0:06

Welcome to Mama's Playground. This is Darlene and this is Monica. And today we are joined by Todd Sarner, licensed Marriage and Family Therapist and the founder of Transformative Parenting. Welcome, Todd. We're so happy to have you let us know. Thank you. Well tell, tell our listeners and us a little bit about yourself, about, uh, what you do and your program. Yeah. Thank you, Monica. Thank you Darlene. Um, happy to be here. Um. So, yeah, I, I've been doing this stuff a long time and kind of the, the organizing principle of my life when it comes to work is just let's help kids grow into their greatest potential. And like, how do we do that? Because that's what I went into psychology for. I, I thought I was gonna be a child therapist. Um, and I went to grad, grad school and I thought that's what I was gonna do. Um, me and my brother and my sister all had to go see a therapist when our parents split up, um, for a little bit. And I loved it, and I'm like, oh, I want to do that. Really? Yeah. I was like 13. And I just thought it was really cool that my parents were having this, like, you know, they didn't do divorce well and, uh, so they're fighting a lot. And the, the court, I guess was like, make sure these kids are okay. And I went and talked to this, uh, Dr. Diner, uh, was his name. He, uh, he's no longer with us, but, uh. Yeah, I just loved being able to go and talk about what was going on. But as I got older, as I went through grad school, um, and then the two important things that happened were, I, I was mentored when my son was about a year old. I, I, I started a mentorship with Dr. Gordon Neufeld. He wrote the book, hold on to your kids, why Parents Need to Matter more than Peers. Interesting. And that together with becoming a father myself, it just got into me that, hey, yeah, kids need help sometimes, like in the situation we were in, hey, it was helpful, but for the most part, the, it's the moms and it's the dads. It's the parents that are supposed to be the answer to the child, not, not someone else, whenever possible. And so it just kind of changed me, like just as a dad, I was like, I don't, I don't want somebody else to have to. Help my kid with a, with a problem, for the most part, I want to be that person. Mm-hmm. So I kind of went in two different directions, two different things that I do. One, I do parent coaching, and so it's kind of this combination of coaching and education and problem solving. I call it a process where I work with people, usually a couple, sometimes single parents, and we go through three months of just learning. And trying things and problem solving and correcting, because I just feel like that's how people change the best is like a combination of not just information, but action and then coaching and, right. Does that make sense? Yes. And it's mostly with the parents, or are the children included? It's the parents. Just the parents. I do not work with the kid. No. The kid. I, I hope the kids don't even know I exist. Okay. You know, um, sometimes kids, actually, I don't know if you guys have ever noticed this, and it's not a big deal, but sometimes kids don't like it when they find out mommy or daddy is, uh, taking a class or going to somebody. I'm not saying it's the worst thing in the world. Yeah. But sometimes I'm like, yeah, it makes sense. Why, why, why do you have to do, you know, it's like, it was it, did I do something wrong? Yes. But Exactly. They think they did something wrong. Mm-hmm. And, and even if you think of yourself like, oh my gosh, I'm not doing this right. Sometimes. Your kid, you're their parent. You're, you're number one. You, they wanna believe that you have it together. No, we gotta pretend that we do those don't all the time. And then the other thing. Yeah. But the other thing I do is marriage counseling and I only do marriage counseling for parents. And it's, it's all part of the same thing obviously, that what kids see in their parents' relationship influences them. Um, mom and dad being in good place is part of good parenting. Yeah. Yeah. And again, we all have imperfect relationships, but if mom and dad are fighting or mom is feeling overwhelmed because she's carrying too much of the mental load and dad's not feeling appreciated or like he gets enough attention, I know these are just random things mm-hmm. That everybody goes through though. Yes. Everybody goes through. Yeah. Um, that affects them of course. And I care about the parents and, but it also affects your ability to, to parent. You know, it affects how much generosity you have inside, how much energy you have. Right. And so in those two different ways, the parent coaching and in the marriage counseling, it's just all trying to get the family system in the best place it can be. Yeah. Um, for the parents, but also so the kids especially. Yeah. For the children. Yeah. I think it all starts with parents. Is that a, the parents good, long, good, good long answer to, yeah. Yes. It starts with us, right? It starts with the parents. Yeah. And then it trickles down to the kids. Yeah. Yeah. And, and that generosity idea is one that I, I, I remember hearing from Dr. Neufeld first when I was, I was first an intern with him and for a couple years, and then I was on the faculty of his institute for a while, teaching others. But, um, he said that parenting requires generosity and, you know, how do you feel if like. Your tank, you know, your, your tank mm-hmm. Of energy, your feeling, whatever. It's in a good place. You had a good sleep. You, you're having a good day. You and your spouse are getting along. You, you know, if you're working, you had a good day at work, or you're feeling appreciated and your kid has a little meltdown, and then the kids come home from school and everything. Chicken. Yeah. The kids come home and, and something goes on. Like if you've had a good day and your tank is kind of full, like you remember that thing the parenting guy says on the podcast, and you try it and it works versus like, you had a bad night's sleep and you're tired and your tank is empty and you're kind of bickering with your spouse and work didn't go well today. And then your kid does the exact same thing. Yeah. You try to remember what the parenting guy said on the podcast and it doesn't go well. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. And so that's like, that's like kind of the hidden secret, one of the hidden secrets sometimes. Taking care of yourself, making sure you put that metaphorical oxygen mask on first and that you're making sure that you're okay and your relationships are okay, and you have downtime. That becomes the secret ingredient sometimes for like implementing the things you're hearing or that you want to try. It just works better because you're in a better place. Mm-hmm. I have, I have a question for you. Yeah. So obviously this starts with the parents. What happens when you have two parents that have totally different styles of parenting, you know, and you now have this, you know, kid, and it's, your dad is saying one thing, the mom is saying another. And they see this bickering back and forth between both parents that do not sometimes meet in the middle, and then one becomes a good one and the other one that becomes the bad. It's a good cop, bad cop. Oh gosh. You're explaining what I hear all day long. Yeah, it's real. Wow. So there's one thing about like, how does it affect the child, which is what you're asking, I think. And then there's what do we do about it, I think, which is, you know, really important. And again, like I, I said my work is about helping the kids by helping the parents, but this is one of the main ways I'm trying to get them on the same page because to answer your, your initial question. I think of it as like a compass. You know, like if you think of a compass and if people are watching, I'm just like simulating like a compass point. Mm-hmm. You know, um, with my hand. Um, like if you think of a compass point, a ki children need a good compass point. And so that means either, like in our household, when my son was little, um, his mom and I would just talk about who, I don't know if you ever saw the movie or read the book. Uh, Lord of the Flies. Yeah. But they had a thing, which is a whole nother thing to unpack, but whoever wanted to speak had the conch had the shell, right? Mm-hmm. And so we used to say, who has the conj? I have it. Okay, I got it. And in, in that way, I would take the lead more or she would take the lead more. And it was the idea that you be the compass point. Oh.'cause if there's not a strong compass point, kids compass, their point is going like this and they don't know who to listen to. You, do you know what I mean? Absolutely. It's confusing, it's overwhelming. And then the kid doesn't do what you want 'em to do and it's not their fault because they're not sure what we're supposed to do because mommy's saying, put on my jacket, and Daddy's saying, come here and grab this thing. Right? And so that's the effect it has on a, on a kid. And none of this is to make you feel bad because everybody out there is going, I did that yesterday. We did that five times this week. Right? The idea is to help you understand it because otherwise you blame your kid, you blame yourself, and that doesn't help. Right? So let's understand it. A kid needs, a, kids need a strong compass point, so sometimes that means you and your partner just decide, you be in charge right now and I'll be in the background doing this. You be in charge, but ideally you and your partner come to be. Together and in the same place. So you're one compass point for your children right. Now that doesn't mean you don't have differences of opinions. That doesn't mean that like you might not need to go, Hey, earlier I did not agree with that. We need to like figure this out together. Mm-hmm. But don't do that in front of the kids. One of them has to step down and be like, you know what? You take the lead. Yes. Not only are you gonna have to come talk to me kidding somebody like me about marriage counseling, because that's half the fights I I I look at with people. But it's your kids not going to do what you want 'em to do either. So the the thing that you do is, is, well, let me explain it this way and, and again, sometimes I'm not answering the question directly, but it because, but it's not because I don't want to answer. It's because I think the way that we frame the questions sometimes. Doesn't lead to the right answer. And let me just explain, and you didn't ask anything wrong, Monica, it's just, um, what happens? I think here's the most common thing I I see with couples and tell me if this resonates, is one of their polarizing, we call it. And people talk about that with politics all the time, but they're polarizing. Usually one parent is saying, Hey, we're having these problems. The kids need more connection, they need more of our quality time. We're too busy, we're on our phones. We're, we're, you're coming home from work and this, right. Uh, they need more of us. And then the, and that's often mom, but it's not always mom, but it's often mom and then the other parent, often dad, not always dad is saying they need more rules, they need more discipline. And they need more boundaries, right? Stability, schedule, the things, they're both right. But it's a matter, it's, yes, it's a matter of how we organize it, what we prioritize, and how we do it. And so by that, I mean connection comes first period. I call the, the, the parenting, I do attachment first. Okay? So it, it's attachment first and alpha led parenting. So what that means is we are in charge. We're big mama bears. We're big papa bears, okay? And we know that if somebody doesn't feel connected to you, they're not gonna listen to you. That's true of adults, it's true of kids. And it's important for kids because they're not supposed to listen to somebody that they don't feel connected to. It's what keeps them safe. And so we first have to like all cultures around the world. In America, there's beautiful things about how we don't have the oppressive culture things of some places we came from, but most places around the world always take time to look in your eyes first and connect first and say, how are you Commo, Sava? You know, uh, you know, like in, in French or, you know? Mm-hmm. And, and we're, I agree. We're we, we, we take a a few moments, right? And we're supposed to do that with our kids. We're supposed to do that with our spouse. If you come home and you just start telling your spouse what to do, how does that go? Bad, not well. Right? So, good lessons, my friends Good lessons right here. Yeah. The first parent who was saying they need, she's right or he's right. We do need to make sure that we get connected first. That we maintain a sense of community. Um. Uh, in, in, in a lot of Latin cultures, I, I won't pronounce it right, but it's fmo fmo, something like this. It's like the idea of family loyalty, you know, and family culture that I've heard before. Mm-hmm. But we, we, we, we lean on attachment first, but then kids do need to learn cause and effect. Yeah, of course. Like you're yelling in the car, I have to pull it over. And that means that we aren't gonna have as much time at the park. That is not a punishment any more than giving you dessert when you didn't have dinner. Like, like that's not a punishment. If I don't give you dessert, you didn't have dinner. You know what I mean? And we don't yell it. We don't threaten, we're going to yell the pull over this car right now, and I'm gonna take away the birthday party on Saturday. Kids do need to know if this happens, this happens if this doesn't, this doesn't. But we have to do it calmly and respectfully. And kids sometimes need limits. They need us to say no. When they're pushing and prodding and things, that's not punishment. That's not being a dictator. They just need, when they're feeling yucky inside and they're bugging you for a cookie for dinner, you know, you have to say no, but you have to be also kind. No, I love you, but no. Okay. Question. So I know I'm giving you a lot there, but it's, I'm giving you the overview and when one of them saying this and one's saying that they tend to get more extreme about their position. I just wanted to make sure I said that. Yeah. So what do we do when we've said no in a loving and beautiful and nice way, five, six times? Or we say, go do this or put this away. It gets to a point that it's, you know, we yell, we scream, we get frustrated, and then we feel bad and then, oh, I'm so sorry that I did that, that I raised my voice. But at the same time, how do we. Work in those situations as parents when it's, no, that's, that's, sometimes that's life. And, but again, what I wanna try to offer is I think a lot of, a lot of parenting experts and gurus and things out there, and there's a lot of great ones. I love Dr. Becky. I, I love, uh, Dr. Neufeld, my mentor, Daniel Siegel, uh, Patty ler and hand in hand parenting. There's so many great people out there, but a lot of people just go, here's the quick solution for that situation, Darlene, and this is what you do. And then it doesn't work, and then you feel worse about yourself. So I'm gonna answer your question, but I think if you build a culture in your home, and this is just the overview part again, where we put attachment first, we make sure that we connect with our kids first. We make sure that we help them feel connected. When they're apart from us, we build an environment. Where we have structure and we kind of know what we're gonna do when, and we kind of are teaching consequences day to day. Mm-hmm. Not as a punishment. I'm just teaching you when this happens, this happens, and then when I set limits with you the right way, where I'm firm and clear and consistent, but I also have a little bit of empathy. I know, honey, you're really mad at me right now, but no, you're not getting it and I'm not changing my mind, but you're really clear and you're really firm, but you also have that little bit of compassion so they know you're not just trying to be a jerk. I find when you focus on that as the big picture and you're doing all of that, that situation doesn't happen as much. But when that situation happens, I, I'm, I'm just saying this out of full compassion. I've had over 2000 parents. I'm clients I, and that doesn't even count. Webinars and classes and all these other things. Uh, and, um, parenting talks at schools. I'm a parent. I've had a hard time with some of this. Okay? I didn't like saying no to my kid. Um, at first I just thought it was mean. Okay? But I'm telling you, I've never met parents that were setting limits properly or that as a parenting team, they were setting limits properly. And so, if that makes sense, Darlene, I would focus on are you and your husband? Are you and your partner people out there? Are you doing it the way I'm saying? And if one of you is, and one of you isn't. That creates that compass problem again. And so I would focus on that. Does that make sense? Absolutely. I'm gonna practice today. I'm gonna start practicing because I, I agree. I agree. And in our case, I'm the one that probably loses more control. My husband is more, I just, as you said, you know, how do you feel? I understand, but he's, he's better at that, so I'm gonna work on it. I've had, I've had you work on it, but mm-hmm. It, it's also, look, it's just usually we didn't have a great model for it ourselves. I know I didn't. And we sometimes are doing one or the other, you know, we're being really mean or we're being really kind. Very few people, uh, that I've met, and again, I'm also, I'm working with CEOs sometimes I'm working with celebrities. I'm working with managers of big law firms and things a lot of the time, and they, and the courtroom man or woman are in there kicking butt and taking names. And then at home, they're swinging back and forth between, I just wanna be really, really nice. I wanna be really, really nice. I'm gonna be mean because Nice didn't work right? And And that's what people do. And if you understand, I had to learn this, sometimes I say I spent hundreds of thousands of dollars just to learn these things by going to grad school and all that stuff, right? 10 years of training and school and all this stuff just to learn as a person and to learn as a dad how to do these things. But guys, this is how we do marriage too. If you need to speak to your husband, you need to speak to your wife about something very hard. It's the same kind of formula. Say what you need to say. Say it simply say it consistently. Say it in a way that you're not pointing the finger of blame, because that's just gonna keep you going. Say, Hey, I'm really mad at you. You did this thing and it made me feel this way, but I love you. And I, I know we're gonna get through this. I just need you to know that this doesn't feel good and we can't do this. But I love you and I understand that you're human and I am too. But don't do this. You get it. That balance, Todd, you know? And now use your own voice. Use your own personality. Don't try to pretend you're Todd or Darlene or, or Monica or somebody you heard on the radio. Mm-hmm. Because then you act, you end up sounding fake. Yeah. With your partner, you're, it's no look inside you and say, Hey, am I doing that? Or am I yelling and screaming and blaming. Right. And again, in couples counseling, it's one of the main things I'm teaching people for months. Have you noticed that? When you say, honey, that really hurts my feelings and I love you and I really want to be talked to in a loving way by you, and I want to talk to you in a loving way. Do you know how often that goes Poorly? Mm-hmm. Very, very little Sometimes if you've been doing it the wrong way for a while, the other one's programmed to that and they're not gonna be hearing it at first. But if you stick with that, people generally are like, oh, craps, honey. I'm sorry, I, I didn't mean to talk to you that way. Where if you go, when you did that, you totally were trying to control me and you were trying to make me feel bad and you didn't. Right. And now all the other person is doing is going, that's not true. I wasn't trying to make you feel bad. It was an accident. I didn't know what I was doing or I wasn't being thoughtful, but I wasn't doing it on. Right. Mm-hmm. And then they're just gonna argue with you. So I know I went into more of the adult relationship thing in a way, but I'm just trying to fill it out. Yeah. That, that's what boundaries look like. Boundaries and good communication are, I'm gonna tell you the truth. I'm gonna say it directly. I'm not gonna read you the riot act about like a hundred things. That is, do you know child, what that's gonna do in life? If you keep trying to do this and you're not gonna ever have a job and you're. And your kid's four going like, whatcha talking about, you know, I just wanna snack. Just say it directly. Hey, that's not how we, Kate, that's not how we talk to each, that's not how we talk to each other. Mm-hmm. I have a, a thought Todd, that you're, that you're, you're saying this 'cause I'm, I'm obviously listening to everything that you're saying and don't you think, I mean, you do couples counseling mm-hmm. And lots of times what I've realized in my own, you know, relationship is that lots of times it's a, a problem within us, right? Maybe it was the way that we were raised or what we saw in our own household. And I've even had this discussion with my husband sometimes I tell him, I think, you know, we need to do separate counseling. Like, you need to work on yourself and work on these like issues maybe that you don't see that you have and vice versa. I have things too, you know, and we all do. Nobody here, you know, um, is perfect. But sometimes I feel like if we don't work on ourselves first, then we try to get into the couples counseling and we still have these issues lingering. Like, you know, for instance, I'll give you an example. In my own relationship. My husband has a hard time me telling him, you know, Hey, you, you, you know, you, I don't like how you did this, or This was wrong, or, and he says to me that it's my tone of voice, right. That irritates him or that, you know, makes him spiral. And I see sometimes a pattern of maybe ego, like the ego comes into play and he just doesn't wanna admit certain things sometimes, you know? So I, sure. I feel like maybe, you know, it's like we, we have to work on ourselves and then we work on each other, and then we work as a family. It's kind of, there's so many layers to it. Yes, totally. And I, I had to write down a couple notes to keep, keep track in my head of all the good points, like the things I wanted to, to say, you know, yes, we all should work on our, ourselves. And I, I think it's like a combination when we're in a good partnership. What I would like to think is that we're both trying. To identify things in ourselves that we need to work on, that being perfect is impossible. And in fact, I just kind of think that people above my pay grade talk about meaning of life and what's our purpose and thing. I, I kind of guess in my old age, um, and my hopefully a little bit of wisdom from doing this for a while, but also being a human for a while, is that maybe part of the point of being a human being is identifying the places where we are not complete, where we could be better, where we could be more fully ourselves, and then work on those things. It's just a matter for me, Monica, of like, how, how, what, how, how do we get there? And it tends to be that if you're pointing the finger at a partner, which I'm sure you've never done. Oh, never. But never, no. If you're pointing the finger at a partner, it tends to, in every human being, no matter who they are. Uh, again, master's degree in counseling psychology here, 30 years of experience in trainings and working with some of the co. And if you point the finger at me, my first instinct is to defend myself. Yeah. Now I try not to, I, I try to be aware, but it's how do we communicate that's more effective? Not BSing, not fake, but how do we communicate that's more effective? So when I'm working with a couple, most of the time I'm saying, Hey, try to work on your part and if you are working on your part and your partner's working on their part, and I'm here temporarily as a referee to kind of be the person who will call you out a little bit on something and take that away from your partner having to do it. And I'll do it in a better way. I'll do it in a way you can hear, because I'm not your wife, I'm not your husband. Let me do that for a little bit. Okay. But one of the things that is inspired by what you were saying. Is Stan Kagan, who's one of the best couples counselors in the world. I think he wrote a book called Wired for Love. I was lucky enough to learn from him for five or six years. Um, I was in one of his first training groups for couples therapy. He, he talked about conflict versus deficit, and he said, just to use your example, Monica, if you looked at your husband as, and sorry husband, uh, we're talking about you. Um, if you looked at him and you thought he was not doing something on purpose because he didn't want to, like, he just woke up going, I'm not gonna like, you know, do that thing Monica needs, then you would kind of naturally feel antagonistic with him and that you might want to, you know, clash about it. Pick a fight. Mm-hmm. And guys, we're also here obviously talking about parenting. That's the same with your kid. Almost everything with your kid is, they don't know how to yet. For real. You know, if kids knew how to do something, they would probably do it. If they felt connected and they knew how to do it, they would probably do it. Okay. Um, we can unpack that more, but if you looked at your husband and thought, Hey, this is just something he didn't learn, you know, it's something that somebody didn't do for him, which is all of us. You have them. You have them. I have them. Oh yeah. Okay. I often use the example of like, what if you were little and your mom was a total germophobe, or she was, had some emotional issues, or she was an alcoholic or something and she was preoccupied and like when you were sick, she just left you alone in your room because she didn't know what to do or because she was afraid of germs. You might grow up and you're married and your husband gets sick, and when he is sick, you just leave him alone in his room. You just think that's normal. But your husband's sitting there going like, why the hell are you not coming in and taking care of me like my mom did? Not that you're his mom. Yeah. But because that's how he's used to care. Right. That's the deficit idea. And if you just understand that your kid doesn't know how to do something, that you don't know how to do things that your husband doesn't know how to do things that doesn't make him wrong or bad or any less of a husband, it just means that's one of the things he needs your help seeing. Right? And so that's goes back to the communication that I was saying before, and the communication again as a reminder being, Hey, I understand you don't know how to do this, or it's not natural to you. I understand I've made you feel bad about it sometimes because I was taking it personally, but I love you. You love me. Let's get past this. I just need you to learn this. I, I, I need you to be there for me, and I want to be there for you. Right. Again, do you know how often I see that go badly in couples therapy? Zero times. Zero times. And there's no BSing about that. I'm trying not to curse. There's no BS you can BSing about that. You can totally do it. Thank you. Thank you. I never, oh my God, yes. There's no, there's no bullshit in that. Yeah. Like, and sometimes people will hear therapy talk. Like I was just watching the show, um, four Seasons on Netflix with my fiance last night, and the joke is Tina Faye and her husband Will Forte have been going to therapy. So they go, okay, I need you right now. And they do this little exercise, right? And it, you laugh at it a little bit. It's not that guys, it's just this is how we are wired to communicate and to listen. So I know that's a really big answer. Um, a long answer, but it makes a total sense. But what about the But but because you're saying But I'm sorry, I'm sorry. One more, one more thing. Darlene. I'm sorry. But, but using We language is often very good. I want us to be this way. Mm-hmm. I want, I want, you know, instead of going, I want you to be different. It's, I want us to talk to each other that way. I just thought that was a good little nugget to throw in there in a practical thing. That makes sense. Yeah. Sorry, Darlene. Yeah. No. What if you, you say they don't do something because they don't dunno how to do it. What if they refuse to do it because they're just being lazy or they're just, you know, well, that's a, that's a hypothetical and I'm not gonna say that couldn't happen. I'm just trying to lend you my experience. Mm-hmm. Right. You guys are good at what you do and you have your life experience. I have my life experience and not most, most of us don't talk to five or six couples a day. And so I'm not trying to say that in a arrogant way. Right. You go, I'm special. No, no, no, no. It's just more like, I'm just trying to lend to you as a human being. Mm-hmm. Guess what I see five or six times a day. What I see five or or six times a day is it goes well. And like I said, to be honest, earlier. It sometimes doesn't go well at first. You have to persist in it because we get muscle memory. We get mu, somebody totally misquoted me the other day in a article. I was, um, not a, not a criticism of her, but she interviewed me for a big, big women's website thing about man handling, I forget what it was called, but like having to explain to our husbands how they're not doing something right or, and I, I said something that she quoted as Change takes nine months, no matter what I tell you, it's gonna take nine months. And that's not what I said. Right. But I am here to be real with you and say, if you tried to implement some of these methods and these ways of communicating, like you said, uh, that you're going to Darlene, please don't expect the first time, the second time, the first week that it totally lands because it's like. We get into these what Sue Johnson and another famous couples counselor that I learned from, uh, and trained with, she passed away a couple years ago. She calls it negative cycles. That because our partner or our kid is not doing something and we are taking it personally, we get mean to them. Then they respond to that, and then I respond to their response and then they write and we create these cycles of communicating with each other that by the time people come into couples counseling, they're deep. They're deep in it. They've walked into this dark forest for a couple years, maybe sometimes or longer, and so please know that to walk out of that forest just takes a little bit of time. Don't think like, because that's the first phase. Somebody learns these things and then they go try 'em, and their husband's first response is not awesome. Right. And then they go, that guy Todd was wrong. You know, it's not that, it's just your husband in this case, and I know there's a husband in the room. Yes. Um, you, your, your husband in some cases is just really used to what you've been doing, not what you are doing. Mm-hmm. And your kid, when you tried to implement connecting first and getting down at their level and setting limits in a new way, they're not used to it. They're used to, mommy tries this at first and then she gets mad. So he is waiting for you to get mad, right? Yes. Or your husband's waiting for you to get mad. Oh, yeah. Since I'm talking to you. Right. And so just persist in it and do it because it's the right thing to do. And do it because what you're doing now isn't working. And, and do it because if you don't have a better idea, just try this. Right. So anyway, so how do, what do you recommend for parents to do, uh, in moments of stress and chaos? Uh, to be able to get to that moment of connecting with their children? Chardonnay bottles of, of wine Bottle check. We got that Coke. I, I'm kind of kidding, but I've been here, I, I live out there in wine country, in, um, in, in Northern California. Oh. Live in Sonoma County. So, so we are, we have our pinot and our Chardonnay here in, across, over the hill in Napa. They have their cab and their chardonnay and stuff. Oh, I got there. I actually been hearing out here in California, they're talking about, um, I don't know if you've heard of this yet. They're gonna take alcohol out of wine and put THC in it. Oh, and so Mommy's, mommy's, mommy's chardonnay is gonna be a whole new thing. Yes. Spiked. Um, I'm just kidding. A little bit, but I, I, I, I might annoy a little bit and make sure I'm answering your question, Darlene. I believe that most of parenting, 90% or more of it is supposed to be what you do to avoid that moment in the first place. Okay. Like, even the word it, this is quoted a lot I, I've found, but the word discipline has the same root word in Latin is disciple. It's, it's discipline is not supposed to be what you do when the shit's hitting the fan to make it stop. Discipline's not supposed to be what you do when your kid's doing something you don't like to make 'em stop. Discipline is more, we are rested, we have structure to our day, we're connecting with each other first. I'm teaching cause and effect when a kid is getting frustrated. I set limits in the way that we're talking about and that if that's the culture I'm, I'm building out, then that situation doesn't happen as much. But you can be more specific in your, your question. Sometimes mommy needs a timeout. Okay? Yeah. Sometimes we just need to like collect ourselves. Okay? But in the moment, the thing that you're trying to do is not cause more damage. Okay? It in the moment you're trying to breathe, you're trying not to react and you're trying to bring order. And so you don't think of yourself as a dictator. You see yourself as a mama bear, okay? Like, okay, this isn't working. No, no, no. I need you to do, Hey, I love you, but I need you to do this. Okay? I need you to go. No. This is what we're doing. And you just get big in a, in a mama bear way or in a Papa Bear way. Yeah. Especially for those, those parents that have two, three kids and soccer and baseball and dance and hectic schedule. And sometimes that's what we have to look at too. Mm-hmm. Is do we have too much going on? Mm-hmm. You know, I, most of my parents for 20 years have been like Marin County, which, like I said, Marin County is the right across the Golden Gate Bridge, mill Valley, uh, San Rafael, um, Coram Madera, Larksburg, one of the most rich zip codes in the world. Belvedere and Tiberon. Some like people that run huge companies that you know of live there, you know, and I just so happened to be where I lived, um, after grad school and where we started, uh, raising our son. But, um. Uh, I am talking so much. I lost my point. Happens to me all the time. Happens. It happens to us all the time in the show. Again, I didn't quite have enough. What was I talking about? Um, but, but these like, oh, I got it. Thank you. Sometimes they just need a beat. Um, they're over sometimes. We all need a beat. I like that. Right? Yeah. They, they think my kid has to be in Mandarin lessons and chess club and tennis and this and that, and it's all about enrichment. I have a book, um, coming out. I don't plug that much. Um, I, I'm allergic to plugging, but it, it is like a whole chapter that I talk about it because I see it so much because I saw it in Marin County, but I'm hearing it in Miami. I'm hearing it in San Francisco. I'm hearing it in Chicago. I'm hearing it in New England. And hey, in Richmond is good. Okay. Teaching our kids things is great. Like awesome. But they need downtime. Yeah. They need to play. And if they don't have downtime, guess what they're gonna do after dinner? They're gonna be bouncing off the walls because they haven't got that energy out. Even if they went to tennis practice, it's not necessarily like a release of energy. My kid was a baseball player, he was an amazing baseball player, but sometimes in baseball, you weren't really moving your body that much. You were sitting there. That's so true. And waiting for the right. And so when I went to practice baseball with him at the, at the field near our house, the first thing we would do is, uh, you know what the first thing baseball players does do? And he'd go laps. They run laps. I'm like, yes, they do. I was just gonna say that. Go run around the bases. And he'd go run around the bases and he'd get his energy out. And then we'd hit balls into the outfield and he'd go running and diving. And I'd not hit him right to him because I'm trying to get that energy out. Yeah. But some kids go to baseball practice and they're sitting in right field and the ball's not coming to him. They didn't get their energy out. My husband is laughing because he's a soccer player and my family, we're all about baseball, so he's always saying the same thing. So right now he's just laughing because he says in baseball, these guys aren't doing anything. They're just sitting there. They're not running. Yeah. But maybe, maybe husband, you guys should score more. Come on. Oh, there you go. I know. He gets so excited. Everybody gets dressed, you know, with the Columbia shirts. And then what was the end of the the score? Zero, zero. I'm like, come on, nothing happened. Yeah, we just there recently. He came, the Miami came here recently and it was a big deal. And I grew up with soccer too in San Jose where I grew up. The earthquakes are there and we have a nice stadium. I love soccer. I'm just playing around. But, um, all I'm saying is, uh, I, I've just, even though it's not what you brought up, it's um, originally when you're talking about what about when things are melting down, sometimes they're melting down because you didn't connect first. Mm. Sometimes they're melting down because you didn't set set limits the right way yesterday. And so they're full of a bunch of frustration that they're trying to get out. Sometimes they're melting down because they haven't got their energy out today, so let's get to the root problem more instead of just the, the symptoms. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. Because if you're, I call it whack-a-mole parenting, you know that, that game. Like we had pizza t Chuck e Cheese when I was growing up. Um, but in arcades they have the thing where, uh, a mole pops up, out head comes out, you gotta hit it. Oh, I love that. I love that too. And, and if you're, if you're, if you're parenting just on symptoms, that's what it feels like. And it's part of what keeps us in a cycle is like this, this kid's not listening today. Okay, what do I do? I'm just gonna go listen to five podcasts and two books. Read two books about, okay, I'm gonna, okay. And, but now this one's popping up, what do I do? Right. And that's exhausting. Mm-hmm. So like, one of my main messages is, yeah, it's good to have advice for what about when things are melting down? Get big, get kind, but be a, a strong leader and bring order to the situation. I, I sometimes say when I'm teaching how to handle incidents of aggression and things. I say, act like you're an EMT or a paramedic who's shown up on the scene of an accident. Okay? Your job is not to litigate who's right and who's wrong, right? Like I had an accident like 10 years ago. Somebody hit me, really? T-boned me and the EMT showed up and everyone's like, it's his fault. It's her fault. It's the dude. And they were driving too fast. The MT doesn't care. She's like, the M T's like, shut up. Yeah. I just wanna take care. Are you okay? Are you bleeding? Okay? Are you, no. Then you need to be quiet and go, no, I'm not being mean. I love you. Go over the EMT. Wouldn't say that. Yeah, but it's that. It's that energy. That's a good takeaway. Yeah, that's a very good takeaway. What I, I, I have so many questions that I would've loved to ask you, but I know that you gotta go Well, we'll do another episode. No, for sure. But, um, were you gonna ask a question now? No, no, no. I just, the last thing that you said actually struck a chord with me because it's true. It's, we have to, you know, who's leading, you know, not, it's not who's right, who's wrong, who's leading the situation. So the EMT thing was very, you have to lead. You have to lead. Yeah. And a leader is not, Hey, child, what do you want? I, um, is it okay, I'm guilty. We do this thing. And again, I can be guilty of that because I just wanted so badly not to be a mean parent, you know, that everything I was learning, I still, I, I once said to my kid, I was just really frustrated. I said, you know what? If you don't stop it, you're grounded. And he just looked at me at five years old and he's like, dad. You say that whenever you're frustrated. I don't know what that means. It, it, it's like, because I had never grounded him. I never even explained what that was. Right. So, but that's, it's not gentle passive. I'm your best friend and I don't want to hurt, you know? But it's also not, I'm pissed off and do what I say because I say that's not how we are supposed to lead. You know, we're supposed to be a mother goose. Like what does a mother Goose do? And I use this example all the time. It's like a mother goose doesn't get behind the Goslings and go, Hey, it would be really great if we kind of went that way. And she doesn't push 'em or whatever. What does she do? She just kind of goes, okay, we're going. And she just starts going, right. And what do the goslings do? They just go, now I know some people out there are going, that's really nice. That's really simple, but it's kind of true too. People want a leader . And it's, my message is just be that leader. And all I try to do is help parents be that leader. I'm sorry, what about, I have to take this, what happened in school? Oh, a mommy thing. Oh, hey, that's real. And I'm gonna do a similar thing and I'm gonna open the door for my cat the, the leader in our house sometimes is the cat. No, they just call her that. The baby is sick, so she has to go get him in school oh, no problem. This has been, I have so many questions, but I we're just gonna start wrapping it up, but we definitely have to do it again. I've been talking to you Likewise. I love what you guys do, so just definitely have me back sometime. That'd be great. This is fun. This is fun. Todd. I apologize. It just, you know, it's okay. Fever. I understand. I, uh, gotta go pick up my son. I, I had, I had a lot of years of, uh, phone calls. Sometimes. I totally understand. Life happens. But it was really nice to meet you. You too. And you know what the funny part is? I told Darlene today, I said, I had this gut. She just told me this morning, mom instinct. I feel like Jacob May come down with something. And they just called me 103 fever. I gotta go as long Moms always know, so if you could give parents one piece of advice what would it be? What would be a good takeaway? Oh, wow. That's always the, the toughest question. Uh, out of everything we talked about, I, you know, see, see yourself as the leader in a, in a positive way for your child. Do everything you can to not try to be perfect, but to be a leader. And always put attachment first, meaning never assume your child feels connected to you. Never walk into a room and just assume what I call the green light. Like I'm looking at you on my, my, my MacBook Pro, and there's a little green light that says the camera's working right. There's a little green light on my, on the side of my computer saying it's plugged in. Don't assume the green light is on with your spouse. With your husband, with your wife, with your child, get it on, get in their face in a friendly way, smile, get their eyes, and just get that sense of, here we are, I found you, right? Mm-hmm. Not just as an exercise, but just get in your loved one's face. Get in your child's face in a friendly way. Get that look of just, here we are, and then you lead from there. That's the number one piece of practical advice I'd give people. It sounds so simple, but it's so important and everywhere around the world, if you don't do that in cultures outside of America, still in America too, but everywhere in the world, I, I, I bet in Columbia, um, in uh, Mexico, where we just were, um, and we're getting married, uh, next year, um, in France, if you walk into a store and you just say, give me this. They will kick you out. Get the eyes, get the smile, get the nod, get into relationship. Don't take it for granted. Mm-hmm. That's the number one thing you can do every day. And if you really build that out as a culture, you're gonna see changes just from that. I absolutely promise you. Thank you so much. I feel that we definitely have. It was great to have you back on, on the show because I have so many more questions for you and it's been so interesting. Anytime. I would love to come back and talk to your audience. I love, like I said, what you guys are doing, your book, when is your book coming out? Oh, oh. Um, it's coming out November 18th, 2025. Okay. Depending on when you're listening to this you can see the mockup. You'll be the first, uh, people I showed it to. This is not real, but it's called The Calm and Connected Parent. Oh, I see. And the subtitle is a, um, an Attachment First Guide to Raising Resilient Kids in the Age of Screens and AI Oh my gosh. We need that. I, I had going in my head for five or six or 10 years. And then finally a lot of the things that I'm hearing from parents and that they're concerned about and things that are making things even harder with technology right now just made me sit down and finish it. So I'm really proud of it and, uh, I'm very self-conscious about promoting things, but there it is. No, of course, but it's doing it's great title. I'm sure that it's, yeah, a lot of information that we need. I'll you guys a copy and we'll definitely have you back so we can talk about that because you just open a whole different set of questions that I can ask. Just let us know and we'll set it up. And where can I know you gotta go, Monica? I'm leaving. Where? Kim? I give kisses from there. I'm leaving you later. Where can people find you? Uh, the best way is just transformative parenting.com and you have a 90 day challenge there as well. Oh, we have a, we have a process, but we don't just work with people, um, with the kind of the one-on-one relationships. Mm-hmm. Because that's expensive. It's time consuming. You really have to take time. It takes a lot of my time. But we have a YouTube channel that has great information. I put out a weekly newsletter if you sign up that every single week I'm putting out an article that I think is actually useful and actually gives you practical takeaways and it's not usually promoting anything. Mm-hmm. Um, I have a LinkedIn. My Instagram is small, but growing. We have a Facebook group, so yeah. Okay. So we'll put all the information so people can reach you to transformative parenting.com and whatever you're looking for there. And if people are interested in working with us, there's a class on their, uh, 20 Minute Master class that kind of introduces the work because we, we don't have room for everybody. We try to like let people know what it is, but. We have lots of good information out there, and we try to serve wherever you are and whatever your situation is. Oh, great. Okay. So that's transformative parenting.com, correct? Yep. Great. Thank you so much. This was Mama's Playground. what I'm going through with my daughter, she's six. How do we, manage the outside influences? Like right now, I don't know if I'm wrong by doing this, but I kind of monitor her friends and like kind of listen to the conversations they're having and. It's so possible in for people to come across as too, um, restrictive or, you know, overprotective and helicopter parenting and stuff. Mm-hmm. But, but the thing is, is a lot of parents are just doing that because they're really afraid of all the influences and they're not good. I mean, this book came out last year, um, the Anxious Generation by Jonathan Haight. Okay. And it was a New York Times bestseller for like most of the year. It might still be on the top 10 list. All it does is explain how anxiety and depression and suicide rates are skyrocketing amongst teenagers right now because of social media and smartphones. Yep. And I've always been like, Hey, let's not get up on a soapbox and yell people about it, because that's not helpful. But it's a serious issue and it's getting younger and younger and younger. And so the main thing that I would say, Darlene and I'm, I'm available to you as a resource. Call me if you want to talk about it. Let's do another episode if you want to talk about it. Mm-hmm. I won't charge you if you call me. Aw, thank you. Um, but, um, it's the most important thing is you build out a community around you of people that believe the same thing. And you don't have to have a hundred people. Like my kid went to a Waldorf school, if you've ever heard of that. It's kinda like Montessori or whatever. Yeah. I'm not saying everybody has to go to it, but the policy at the school was kids do not have smartphones and they're not on screens and they don't do social media. Until they're in at least eighth grade. And even then they cannot have their phones in school. They're in the locker. Mm-hmm. And if they need something, they can go to it or whatever. Right. But that was so helpful. And we just had, my kid got along with all the other kids and got along with the girls. But it just so happened that there was these five boys that, because he was a boy, he really loved playing with these five boys. There was a group of total of five, and we really liked their parents. And we all had the agreement that we're not doing screens. Oh, wonderful. And so I didn't need my kid to be everywhere. And if a family did screens and stuff, I didn't need to be a jerk or superior to them and go whatever. I just go, Hey, totally respect your choices. You are their parents. But for us, it just doesn't work to have screens and social media. And we're just, we notice that it's harder to parent. We noticed that our kid doesn't listen. And guess what, if you say it that way, nine outta 10 parents are gonna be like, oh yeah, we have that too. Mm-hmm. And what I found lending my experience to you, again, I wish we wish, I, I I feel like we should be recording that. Yeah. Well, we'll do it again. But, but most parents out there feel like you do. They just think they have to do it because everyone else is doing it. Oh, no. I don't want that. Yeah. And so you, you just have to build your own little village and you talk to other people like Monica or whatever, and you're just like, Hey, there can be a time, but right now, let's just not do it. Okay. I need to know. I'll send my 6-year-old over to your house and they're not gonna do it. Right. Okay. And just build out a little village, and you don't have to be up on a soapbox yelling at people about it because you're so worried about it. Mm-hmm. You just have the calm dignity of this is what we do. Because my job is not to make my child happy, and my job is not to make other parents happy. My job is to take care of them. I, that's my job that, yeah. Okay. What I, and, and I want my kid to be happy, but it's not my job. My job is to make sure he is happy and healthy and his brain is protected and his body's protected and his heart is protected. And if I do that, I believe he's gonna be happy. But today he might be mad at me because those kids are on, you know, Snapchat or those kids are on. Yeah. I don't care what those kids, kids are on. So that's what I wanna say to her. If she says, oh, but my friend has a phone, I tell say something to her like, that's what they do in their house. In our house. We're not gonna have a phone in our family. We're not gonna have a phone till you're 18. I don't know. Wait, and this is an extreme thing, Darlene, that I try not to say on a podcast because it can sound so extreme and you would not take me seriously. Some people, if I made this comparison, but. Uh, like social media and screens act in the same chemical processes in the brain as cocaine. A, it's the same. It, it spikes dopamine levels in the brain, just like in, in endorphins, but mostly dopamine in the brain. If, if I did an FMRI of a kid who is like way on social media and getting the spikes and, and an adult who was on cocaine, I'm not kidding, it would show up the same in the brain. Okay. And it's like cocaine in that it raises your dopamine levels up to a point that anything that's not, that feels. And it's, it's the same thing. And it's scary because then you are done with social media and then you start getting depressed because you're not living the life that other people are showing that they're living. Just again, again and again, I would hesitate to say this on recording because people would think I'm being crazy. We're not recording. But that's exactly the same way. People do cocaine the first time and they experienced this euphoric high, and then every time after that they're just trying to get back to normal. Okay. And they can have a good experience. Sometimes it feels good, but, but it shifts the bar. And then mom goes, let's take a walk. Or dad goes like, let's play ball, or whatever. And that just by definition is not as stimulating with the endorphins as, yeah. So then I don't want to do it. You know? And then parents are like, why doesn't my kid want to play and be creative and draw and put, because it's not spiking their brain. Mm-hmm. And that's why adults, I went to my favorite brew pub last week. Um. It's called Russian River Brewing Company. Oh, nice. And I went in there. Reason, I'm just like, that sounds yummy. It's one of the best breweries in America. They invented the double IPA Oh. But, um, fa, you come here, but you go, you, yeah. You go in there sometimes. And I'm, I'm saying I'm not above it Darlene at all. But you go in there and the point is, let's be social. Let's be around other people. Let's watch the Giants game. You know, let's watch'em beat the Marlins. And people watch too, right? But everybody at the bar was on their phone. Every single person was on their phone. Because turning to the person next to you is not as stimulating as looking at what Donald Trump did today. And it's pissing me off or making me ha or whatever. Right. Pissing me off probably. Yeah. Making Monica happy. Pissing me off. Just, just trying to be fair. But yes. You know, and, but that getting pissed off at a politician spikes your dopamine too. And that's why. Facebook keeps getting in trouble because we keep finding out that they know it's doing this to our kids and they keep doing it anyway because the kids stay on longer, so they make more money. Right. But now it's more TikTok than Facebook. Right. Right. But to me, and and guess what? In China, they don't allow it. Oh, I heard in China, in China, TikTok turns off at 10 o'clock at night or nine o'clock at night. For kids in China, they don't give all the spiking stuff. It's science and it's, um, educational stuff that the kids are seeing. They're not seeing the same stuff that we are. And that's the company that owns it, right? That that's the country that controls it. Yeah. They're not, Steve Jobs from Apple Computer sent his kids to a Waldorf school in San Jose, and they didn't, they weren't allowed to have iPads. You know. Incredible. So if, if tech people, and guess what? Some of these people are my clients. Okay. I have a lot of clients from Silicon Valley that are running these companies and they don't let their kids have the technology a lot of the time, not all the one that they build. So I would just say Darlene, if somebody said, Hey, you should let your kid have a shot of whiskey, you should let your kid try some drugs. Everyone else is doing it. You'd be like, shut that. It's not gonna happen. So, so guess what? From a psychological mm-hmm. Physiological point of view, it's not different. It's really not. And so my challenge is a parenting coach is saying that in a way that doesn't make people think I'm crazy, but it's true. It's true. I don't think you're crazy. I think it's true. Yeah. But, but, but it's so everybody does it. Mm-hmm. Right? It's like anything else. Everybody's doing it. So if you try not to do it, it's like people might have told you, and then I'll let you go. Like if there, if you put crabs, live crabs in a, in a big boiling pot and it started getting warmer, one of the crabs would start climbing above the other crabs to try to get out. The other crabs will pull it back in. No, look this up. You can find videos of it, even if you don't wanna see it. I wanna see a video of that. And it's not, these, the crabs are like, you have to die too. It's just the crabs are like, we don't leave here, we stay together. Right. Oh, and that's kind of a group thing. Think thing that happens, you know? So anyway, you got me on a diatribe. You got me on a, on a tear. Thank you. Tell me when this comes out. And we Yes. So it'll be either the first week of October or the second. Great. And if you want to have me back, I'll, I'll send you guys copies of the book to check out. I would either electronic or whatever, because that's a whole different, I, I had like eight more questions and I told her I'm like. It probably, it's gonna end up being two episodes, but yeah, she, it's always the way I joke, every time I do a podcast, which is at least once a week, every time I do a podcast, it's like, oh my God, I could talk forever. And you guys probably would want to, it's fine. Do And I wish we could be in person with a glass of wine. A double IP You know what? Yeah, we, we'll, we'll, you guys come out, do some wine, uh, like it, it's typical. People go wine tasting during the day and then they go, uh, get beer at night. Yeah, yeah. Oh. Used to do that a lot. If, if you go to Russian River Brewing, like almost everybody there is in the wine industry, they've been working all day. You know, in the right now it's harvest time. They've been working all day. What a beautiful job's you outdoors, beautiful weather. And here, what's the saying? There's a saying and it's, it takes a lot of great beer to make a great wine. Because during harvest time, the, the people in the wineries are drinking beer while they're doing their work. Sometimes, like when they're picking grapes, they're drinking beer. So, good beer. Anyway, I better go rest. So how do I get your info? Because, uh, should I contact you through Kelly? Yeah, yeah. I, okay. I, I see the emails too, but I just have so much going on. I can't keep track of the emails and Okay. I, I don't know how to do scheduling. And so Kelly, uh, does all that. She's gonna be busy for when the, so the book comes out in November. So hopefully we can have you around that time. I'll talk to her. That would be great. Alright. Okay. Good to talk to you. I hope you're, thank you so much. Have a to Monica's baby. Yeah, she told me before we started, she said, I have a feeling I'm gonna get a call. So she had the phone here vibrating just in case. Yeah, because yeah, totally. It's a timely thing. She, he had 103 fever. Thank you for understanding. Oh, of course. Um, I'll talk to you soon. Okay. Have a great, great day. Bye-bye. Bye guys. Bye.